TCG Product Return Scams
Standard policy for any TCG in general is no returns or must still be SEALED, (at any big store its the same, EB Games, 401games, Walmart, Costco, any local gaming store; if its still sealed, you may be able to return it, sure, sometimes its final sale) but you can't waltz in with a half open box or ripped open booster packs and ask for a refund (even at Costco believe it or not). So why does Amazon allow it?
The return policy for sealed TCG (Pokemon) CLEARLY states on the item page of any Prime Item
"Eligible for Return, Refund or Replacement within 45 days of receipt. This item can be returned in its ORIGINAL CONDITION for a full refund or replacement within 45 days of receipt"
I'm seeing in my account that 3 items that are 'damaged' and I have to pull them; damaged by the scammers taking advantage of your awful system. If it is showing customer damaged then WHY DID YOU GIVE THEM THEIR MONEY BACK? Before inspecting the item, considering your own policy saying it has to be original condition. That is almost a 300$ loss for me.
If I do a removal request, I am going to get damaged items that I can't do anything with and definitely can't re-sell, it is a 100% loss; in case you don't know how TCG works, the booster packs are sealed, they can open them, take the good cards, and clearly send the garbage back for a full refund. You can't just order as many $ worth of product you want, open the packs decide you weren't happy with what you got, and get a full no questions asked refund, that is just utterly ridiculous
This is actual theft, and can open many legal options/litigation. You are not enforcing your return policy on customers and refunding them without even confirming if the item is still sealed/new ('original condition') and re-sellable , therefore you must reimburse sellers in full for these items. Its no wonder I hesitate to do FBA , and usually stick to FBM. Just awful practice, and seller support is no help as usual.
Edit: In case there is a system in place that allows me to send pictures/get money back after I receive these (anyone ever have actual real world success with this)? Why waste everyone's time? If the warehouse designated these ETBs as 'damaged' and 'unsellable' then clearly they are not in original condition anymore, they should just deny/reverse the refund right there and then (not take my money) and call it a day, anything else is clear Amazon-facilitated theft from the customer. Why make me do a removal request, and then try to get it back after the fact, when its obvious already.
TCG Product Return Scams
Standard policy for any TCG in general is no returns or must still be SEALED, (at any big store its the same, EB Games, 401games, Walmart, Costco, any local gaming store; if its still sealed, you may be able to return it, sure, sometimes its final sale) but you can't waltz in with a half open box or ripped open booster packs and ask for a refund (even at Costco believe it or not). So why does Amazon allow it?
The return policy for sealed TCG (Pokemon) CLEARLY states on the item page of any Prime Item
"Eligible for Return, Refund or Replacement within 45 days of receipt. This item can be returned in its ORIGINAL CONDITION for a full refund or replacement within 45 days of receipt"
I'm seeing in my account that 3 items that are 'damaged' and I have to pull them; damaged by the scammers taking advantage of your awful system. If it is showing customer damaged then WHY DID YOU GIVE THEM THEIR MONEY BACK? Before inspecting the item, considering your own policy saying it has to be original condition. That is almost a 300$ loss for me.
If I do a removal request, I am going to get damaged items that I can't do anything with and definitely can't re-sell, it is a 100% loss; in case you don't know how TCG works, the booster packs are sealed, they can open them, take the good cards, and clearly send the garbage back for a full refund. You can't just order as many $ worth of product you want, open the packs decide you weren't happy with what you got, and get a full no questions asked refund, that is just utterly ridiculous
This is actual theft, and can open many legal options/litigation. You are not enforcing your return policy on customers and refunding them without even confirming if the item is still sealed/new ('original condition') and re-sellable , therefore you must reimburse sellers in full for these items. Its no wonder I hesitate to do FBA , and usually stick to FBM. Just awful practice, and seller support is no help as usual.
Edit: In case there is a system in place that allows me to send pictures/get money back after I receive these (anyone ever have actual real world success with this)? Why waste everyone's time? If the warehouse designated these ETBs as 'damaged' and 'unsellable' then clearly they are not in original condition anymore, they should just deny/reverse the refund right there and then (not take my money) and call it a day, anything else is clear Amazon-facilitated theft from the customer. Why make me do a removal request, and then try to get it back after the fact, when its obvious already.
16 replies
Seller_VWH3L8aWpXh3d
From support:
''Amazon does not accept responsibility and will not reimburse you for returned items that are damaged by a customer, are subject to recall, are defective or in violation of Amazon policies, or for other similar reasons. Items that fall into these categories are added to your unfulfillable inventory when they are returned.
Hence, we are sorry to inform you that we are unable to process reimbursement or reverse refund for customer damaged unit. We suggest you to create removal order and get back unit from warehouse.'
Wow...that is incredible. So you are basically green lighting amazon return fraud. This is good to know. So the customer can buy a product from FBA, open it, take everything inside, 'damage it' and send it back to you for a full refund, and when I get the box and its empty (literally just the box), there is nothing I can do right? The customer is excused for the theft, and I just take 100% loss?
That is crazy, I will never sell anything on FBA again, that is absolutely crazy. You really need to send this to your supervisors, or at least change the return policy on Trading card game items. I will just do FBM that way I'm in control of returns and I WON'T refund scammers who steal contents of an item and send back the garbage.
Josh_Amazon
Hello @Seller_VWH3L8aWpXh3d,
This is Josh from Amazon. Thank you for contacting our Forums!
I understand about the experience you had with these items that were returned damaged and fully refunded to customers even though they were damaged by them. The issue is more concerning now that you provide context that the items are TCG boosters, in which the customers can just open them, get the cards they wanted and then return them like that, and still get a full refund.
I know this can be a really frustrating experience, because as you mentioned and I quote FBA customer returns policy:
"If a returned item is in a sellable condition, we will return the item to your inventory and not reimburse you. If a returned item is an unsellable condition, we will determine who is responsible for the condition. When we do accept responsibility for an unsellable return, we will reimburse you and will not add the item back to your inventory.
Amazon does not accept responsibility nor reimburse for returned items that are damaged by a customer, subject to recall, are defective or in violation of Amazon policies, or other similar reasons. We add these items to your unfulfillable inventory when they are returned."
This is why I will make sure to pass along this feedback to our team in charge so we can review this situation and hopefully we will improve the experience to our sellers and customers by improving the processes. Thank you so much for letting us know about your experience.
Go to the following links for more information:
Kind Regards,
-Josh
Seller_VWH3L8aWpXh3d
Thanks Josh for actually understanding the issue, yes you need to pass this on, but it needs to be acted on immediately, in fact, you (amazon and bezos are losing LOTS of money on this) because its a well known loophole on reddit and online. The exact same thing is happening to you on the sold by amazon TCG items.
In fact I did an experiment to prove my point yesterday, and I was right, I purchased a 'warehouse deal, like new' from amazon.ca themselves (not 3rd party seller via prime/FBA).
I already knew what I was going to get, and I was right.
It was a gutted box, inside, all packs were opened (cut open with scissors) and the contets of the packs were almost empty, all the good cards were taken, some replaced with bad cards from ther sets, some were half empty, one was missing completely. Of course I am sending this back, so amazon takes a full loss on this (and believe me, thousands and thousands of dollars on other ones across .ca and .com; and this will continue to happen until you change the policy ASAP to match other big box stores on TCG items (Lorcana, Pokemon Magic, YuGiOh); its a no brainer, it must be returned sealed as is, or it must be final sale
I have pics if you'd like to see, attached, all packs opened, cards taken from inside, all half empty. This is not a toaster where if you are not happy with performance you can return it (you can't steal contents from it like the heating element before returning it)...it can be cleaned refurbished and re sold. I can't refurbish or reseal Pokemon packs. Only the Pokemon company can. In fact their own policy, on their own online store Pokemon center is final sale , no returns. If they caught wind of what's happening here on Amazon believe me they'd ban all sales of their product off Amazon, even sold by Amazon, to protect their own product integrity and reputation so it's not used as a vehicle to scam customers, fans, and official approved sellers (like me), which seemingly only Amazon allows out of all the big stores and any store that sells tcg really. No idea how a company as big and resourceful as Amazon did not do their homework on this !
This is a TCG item, customers can't return it if they 'are not happy with the cards they pulled'. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise I can just keep buying and returning for full refund no questions asked; until I pull a 100$ to 1000$ card, its basically a risk free lottery, a scammer's dream
This needs to be escalated and acted on ASAP , highest priority; because me and many sellers are not going to touch FBA on these types of items until its fixed; especially that we have no way to get money back from amazon (or more fairly the scamming buyer) who sent this back; I know I can 'report abuse' but I don't think anything comes out of that; if there is an avenue, let me know
Seller_VWH3L8aWpXh3d
final photo
again as a reminder, this was a SOLD BY AMAZON example, not third party
, and amazon warehouse inspected (which now holds no trust in my eyes, literally means nothing) by someone who works there who SOMEHOW deemed this to be fit for re-selling as like-new, can you believe that? Clearly didn't bother opening the box to check, or did, and still didn't care, or didn't know any better, and that's a big problem. Staff need training and should NOT accept these types of returns, send right back to customer and reverse refund and give a stern warning.
For me to end up with this warehouse deal, the scammer who originally bought this new/sealed from Amazon, stole the contents, and was somehow allowed to return it to Amazon for a full refund (no idea what the reason he/she was allowed to choose was, quality not acceptable? lol. From personal experience level 1 support will take any reason and refund you before you even send the item sometimes) even though it was clearly opened/gutted/not in original condition once Amazon received it, I bet the original buyer won't even be warned.
You really need to take a stance and stomp out fraud from Amazon. Its way too well documented, customers have a free reign to do anything they want. Its not right. And sellers like me are suffering and losing lots of money. You can take a 1000$ loss like its nothing, but I can't take a 100$ loss even, have a family to feed.
We especially lose on FBM VTR exempt items (<30$) where no tracking is required, and your system inexplicably shows verbiage in customer's order history that the item is running late/lost, which encourages them to get their money back even though they received it likely, and we get hit with unfair A-Z claims as well, sometimes without them even messaging us first, which is directly against your policy, and again is not enforced, appealing it just sends me a AI/robot response saying 'we stand by our decision'; but that's a story and something that needs to be fixed ASAP for another day, although I've brought this up to no avail for months now)
PS, random story, once someone returned my pokemon FBA item, and when I did a removal request, I received a bottle of perfume instead (I have the order ID for this if you wish)....and seller support did NOTHING for me. They said 'report violation', I did, and nothing came out of it. It was probably read by some robot/AI and discarded. Much like seller support who I am convinced are AI/reading from a script. Such is the extent of the current amazon return fraud and how its being left unchecked, and worse, customers know this now.
We really need more seller protection, like we get on eBay. Even if I ship something with tracking and it shows delivered, they can just lie and say they didn't get it and because no signature was required, and they still get their money back. Even with signature there are cases where they get $ back on this forum all the time... its only a matter of time before some other platform who takes care of sellers better shows up and Amazon will be in trouble, you really need to wake up!! I don't know if these issues don't happen on .com and its mostly a Canada issue because less resources/ less experienced support available to us, I'm not sure. Check out the threads on these forums, every week, its the same issues/complaints. Take a clue/hint and take action, please.
Seller_ptBwlfZsWDPhO
Actually this DOES relate to other products as well! I get soundbars returned to me missing the remotes, cables or power supplies. People are buying just because they need a part or piece and then returning for a full refund. Also I get video game controllers returned to me with the old worn out one inside and they get a full refund and sometimes they get refunded after the time is up. I have just been letting it slide but this trend is on the rise and it is turning profitability into breaking even or slight loss for me.
Seller_0OyBj3j4ZkjwA
Amazon identifies all FBA returns as "Customer damaged " even if t's till new sealed ,not guarantee it'll be sealed though .
Amazon will throw you under the buss to satisfy a scammer , it's not their loss so why not keep a scammer happy .
you shouldn't send these kind of items to FBA you have no control over returns Amazon will take anything back in some case months i.e 18 months after delivery .
Seller_3uA4GjarM2k68
Because Amazon doesn't care, they still make money from seller fees. They make money no matter what, and the customer is always happy, so it's the sellers who basically pay for everything.
