EFN Problem
Serious problem with EFN, can anyone help? We are a UK own brand seller. We enrolled in the EFN program in the EU some time ago, and our products are stored in FBA warehousing in Spain. Because we are only VAT registered in Spain (not any other EU country), Amazon's rule is that products can only be stored in Spain. They are then distributed to customers both within Spain and in other EU countries. This works fine. However, the problem we are having is that when a customer returns a product that they bought in Germany (for example), this product is then sent back to FBA Germany. So far, also fine, because to abide by their own rules you would think Amazon would then forward the product back to FBA Spain (these are products in sellable condition). But they don't! Not only do they keep them in Germany (and other EU countries), they charge for storage there even though these products are not for sale because they are not in Spain. Also, because they are not in Spain when you go to Manage All Inventory and FBA Inventory, only the products in Spain FBA are listed. So we don't get proper visibility on those and these products outside Spain increase each time there is a return. And we are charged storage fees each month and now long term storage fees too, which are adding up. We have found out that only by doing a full Inventory Ledger report can these products be seen. We have contacted Seller Support and asked them these questions:
1. How do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
2. How can we get the products that are already in non-Spain EU warehouse sent back to FBA Spain warehouses?
For number 1 we were initially told that the returns settings had been set up incorrectly but they were correct now, and that this would not happen again. However, it keeps happening.
For number 2 we were told that this is not possible, that they can only be sent to a third party address within the EU. We don't have such an address as we are UK based and rely on Amazon for warehousing.
We then contacted Seller Support again, and asked these questions:
A. Again, how do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
B. As we did not request these products to be returned to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses (and this seems to be against Amazon's own policies), please can we be refunded the monies paid for non-Spain EU FBA storage fees?
C. As we don't have any address within the EU, if they cannot be sent back to Spain FBA our only option is to have these products destroyed (even though they are in sellable condition).
For A and B we received no response about this. For C we were sent information about how to send the products to a 3rd party address within the EU (which we don't have), and the question about destroying the products was ignored.
At this point we gave up with Seller Support and I contacted a third party Amazon service provider and asked them for a quote to get these products destroyed. They have now been looking into this for a week and they cannot yet find out how to do this.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Or if someone from Amazon would respond and help, even better. In all fairness we should really have the storage costs refunded, and be provided with a way to stop this happening again, otherwise it is a drain on our business and undermines the viability of the EFN program.
@Sakura_Amazon_
@Sarah_Amzn
@Winston_Amazon
@Simon_Amazon
@Julia_Amzn
@Ezra_Amazon
EFN Problem
Serious problem with EFN, can anyone help? We are a UK own brand seller. We enrolled in the EFN program in the EU some time ago, and our products are stored in FBA warehousing in Spain. Because we are only VAT registered in Spain (not any other EU country), Amazon's rule is that products can only be stored in Spain. They are then distributed to customers both within Spain and in other EU countries. This works fine. However, the problem we are having is that when a customer returns a product that they bought in Germany (for example), this product is then sent back to FBA Germany. So far, also fine, because to abide by their own rules you would think Amazon would then forward the product back to FBA Spain (these are products in sellable condition). But they don't! Not only do they keep them in Germany (and other EU countries), they charge for storage there even though these products are not for sale because they are not in Spain. Also, because they are not in Spain when you go to Manage All Inventory and FBA Inventory, only the products in Spain FBA are listed. So we don't get proper visibility on those and these products outside Spain increase each time there is a return. And we are charged storage fees each month and now long term storage fees too, which are adding up. We have found out that only by doing a full Inventory Ledger report can these products be seen. We have contacted Seller Support and asked them these questions:
1. How do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
2. How can we get the products that are already in non-Spain EU warehouse sent back to FBA Spain warehouses?
For number 1 we were initially told that the returns settings had been set up incorrectly but they were correct now, and that this would not happen again. However, it keeps happening.
For number 2 we were told that this is not possible, that they can only be sent to a third party address within the EU. We don't have such an address as we are UK based and rely on Amazon for warehousing.
We then contacted Seller Support again, and asked these questions:
A. Again, how do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
B. As we did not request these products to be returned to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses (and this seems to be against Amazon's own policies), please can we be refunded the monies paid for non-Spain EU FBA storage fees?
C. As we don't have any address within the EU, if they cannot be sent back to Spain FBA our only option is to have these products destroyed (even though they are in sellable condition).
For A and B we received no response about this. For C we were sent information about how to send the products to a 3rd party address within the EU (which we don't have), and the question about destroying the products was ignored.
At this point we gave up with Seller Support and I contacted a third party Amazon service provider and asked them for a quote to get these products destroyed. They have now been looking into this for a week and they cannot yet find out how to do this.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Or if someone from Amazon would respond and help, even better. In all fairness we should really have the storage costs refunded, and be provided with a way to stop this happening again, otherwise it is a drain on our business and undermines the viability of the EFN program.
@Sakura_Amazon_
@Sarah_Amzn
@Winston_Amazon
@Simon_Amazon
@Julia_Amzn
@Ezra_Amazon
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
What a situation, I am going to set up a meeting with my contact to find out exactly what is going on and how we can solve it.
I will let you know.
Regards, Spencer
133 replies
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I am Spencer with Amazon.
Have you had a chance to contact seller support on this issue?
Let me know if you need additional help.
Regards, Spencer
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
The person you are dealing with is from an internal team and he is dealing with another internal team. I am in direct contact with him.
I have asked him for the latest update on your case. I will keep you posted.
Regards, Spencer
Spencer_Amazon
Hello again @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I followed up with my contact and he is still working hard with different teams to get this resolved.
In the mean time the issue remains unders research and consideration.
We stay in touch.
Regards, Spencer
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi Spencer,
Well, hopefully that is good news.
But actually the situation has now got much worse. Besides the customer returns being sent to the EU unauthorised warehouses, new products that I sent to the FCs in Spain have been forwarded on to EU unauthorised warehouses too. And because of this have not been made available for customers to buy. This is new stock, stock that has never been sent to a customer. At the selling prices there's over €3,000 of our incoming stock that disappeared after being sorted into the Spain FCs and has now been found in German, Polish and Italian FCs. This is the stock that I sent in because I didn't have time to cancel it as I thought all the issues with the EFN system would be resolved by then.
It will soon be coming up to 6 months since both you and I have been working on this. I am told by your contact in the internal team that the new stock is now in the process of being returned back to Spain, as is some of the stock that we keep being charged the storage and long term storage fees for. However, there is no visibility on this, and while I would very much like to believe this is going to happen until it does we are still in the same situation as before plus this additional problem of new stock being sent to unauthorised warehouses too.
We have both spent a lot of time on this over these months, and you have diligently pursued this, but even so we are, as it stands now, in a worse situation than when we first began. Very, very frustrating to say the least.
I am now in a situation whereby I can send most future products to UK 3rd party warehousing and send FBM to the EU customers from there, and it this way avoid the EFN system altogether. However, there is a range of lower priced products that it would not be cost effective to do that. Some of these are already made at the factory now and waiting to be shipped, and I need to decide whether to risk sending them to Spain FCs for EFN within the next 7 - 10 days.
With the problems we have with the returns going to unauthorised warehouses the risk was already high. But now with the current situation it's possible all the incoming stock could be forwarded on to unauthorised warehouses too.
It's difficult to know what to do under these circumstances and I wonder if you have any advice please? If you think I should still send them would you also commit to keeping this thread open (even if the original problem with customer returns is resolved) until we are sure that everything is working properly and no products are being sent anywhere they shouldn't be? Please let me know.
I am hoping that we will receive the further reimbursement before I have to decide this too, and that it will be an amount that gives me confidence that even if things do continue to go wrong at least we will be properly recompensed. I will let you know here when I hear something about that.
Meanwhile, this is the reply I have sent to your contact in the internal team:
"Thanks for this. However nearly all other the products on your list are not products that have been returned by customers, which is what this case has been about ever since it was first opened. Most of the products on your list were recently sent into Spain FCs by me, but then after being successfully sorted there they disappeared and were never made visible for customers to buy or made visible for us to see what had happened to them. So this is a new and additional problem, and another route by which products are ending up in unauthorised EU warehouses, this time without first ever being sent to a customer. This also means that none of these products were available for customers to buy during the still ongoing Black Friday busy period, and so this is another major loss for us.
Please can you keep me updated when the remaining products that were subject to the storage and long term storage fees are sent to Spain FCs, and also let me know if there is anywhere I can get visibility on this and the ones that you have already initiated the transfer for.
In your previous message you mentioned about making sure further storage and long term storage fees cannot be charged to our account for non authorised warehouses. Please can you confirm that this has now been done and that there will be no more such charges.
Also, in your previous message you said:
'Compensation for storage and long-term storage fees: We take your concerns seriously and acknowledge the inconvenience this has caused. While we're committed to fair compensation, please note that our policy limits us to reviewing and potentially reimbursing fees incurred within the past year. We'll conduct a research on this issue and provide you with a fair compensation accordingly.
For charges beyond the one-year window, I apologize, but we cannot process reimbursements for these due to our internal policies. However, I assure you that we're focusing on resolving the root cause to prevent future occurrences.'
Please do proceed with the reimbursement, and I trust that the losses incurred by the new issue of the new products being sent to unauthorised warehouses will be fully taken into consideration when assessing the reimbursement amount. Also, some charges beyond the one year window have already been refunded, so this is definitely possible. I may be able to get the information from our accountants about all incorrect storage and long term storage fees that have been charged for the entire period that this has been happening. If this would be of any help please let me know, otherwise I trust you will take everything into consideration that has been happening here and err in our favour when assessing the reimbursement amount. We want to sell on Amazon, and that is all we are trying to do, so please support us properly in the case of serious issues like this so that we and other seller can have the confidence to do this.
I realise that this is probably just as difficult an issue for you to resolve as it is for us, and thank you for doing your best to continue to resolve this. However, please be fully aware that in addition to the sheer frustration of this, we are the ones losing financially from this situation. So please do make sure we are reimbursed for absolutely the fullest amount that you calculate we could have lost through this. Thank you."
Spencer_Amazon
I am so sorry that this is not only still happening, but getting worse @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n.
I am contacting my colleague and have forwarded your latest post. I am really hoping this will be solved soon.
Regards, Spencer
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Yes, this is definitely a really serious issue now.
On the one hand Amazon wants sellers to sell through the EFN system, even actively encourage it. But on the other hand it doesn't work properly, stock and money is lost, and there's huge risk involved in sending stock to Amazon.
It's difficult to believe that in the nearly 6 months since this issue was first raised that Amazon could not have fixed this had the will to do so been there. I believe that you and your contact in seller support have genuinely been trying to resolve this. The problem is it is another internal team, who we cannot have any direct contact with, who are responsible for this.
On 3rd December I received this from your contact in seller central:
"I want to assure you that we are actively working on your case and thoroughly investigating all aspects you've highlighted, including:
1. The new issue of products being sent to unauthorized EU warehouses without customer returns
2. The status of product transfers to Spain FCs
3. Preventing future storage and long-term storage fees for unauthorized warehouses
4. Compensation for fees incurred, including consideration of losses from the new issue
5. The possibility of reviewing charges beyond the one-year window
We understand the financial impact and frustration this situation has caused, and we're committed to resolving these issues as quickly and fairly as possible."
And on 23rd last month I was also told:
"I've checked on the status of your inventory transfer to Spain FCs. As of now, the units initiated transfer 3 days ago."
But when I check today all the units are still in the unauthorised warehouses, plus another one, and there's no sign of the missing stock either.
Can something be done other than simply sending this problem to the same internal team over and over again who it now seems obvious cannot resolve this? There must be people in Amazon who can fix this, who would actually be appalled by this situation and want to get it fixed as soon as possible. Do you know who they are? How do we contact them?
This is the 5th time a transfer of the stock has been attempted and the 5th time this has not worked. And now there are addition products that are completely missing too.
This is now causing serious problems as we're needing to rethink our whole sales strategy, as the EFN system was central to what we planned to do in the EU. We have stock made at the factory now because I trusted Amazon, but now I have no idea what to do with that.
And no further recompense has been received, which is my other really major concern while this is still ongoing.
We really need to be fully recompensed for this urgently, and at this stage, in addition to the point 4 above, I think it is fair that this amount also includes the value of the products at the selling price minus any charges Amazon would have applied when they were sold, for all products that are still stuck in unauthorised warehouses and also the products that are missing (missing in the sense that there is nowhere in seller central where we can see where these have gone, and customers cannot buy them).
There has to be some trust restored by Amazon here, I hope you agree and that we can at least be quickly and properly recompensed, while the problems are still being worked on and hopefully eventually resolved. I will post again here when I have an update about this (hopefully a positive one, and hopefully soon).
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
I'm now sent the message below to your contact in seller central. If you are in contact with him please can you convey the urgency of being properly recompensed. Thanks.
"Thanks for your updates, but since I was last in touch here nothing has happened. The products are still in the unauthorised warehouses (and more is being sent there) and the missing products are still missing. It think it must be obvious by now that the team that have been dealing with this are not able to fix it. I realise this is not your fault as you are in the middle so to speak, but please can you escalate it internally and find someone who can really solve this issue. This is really affecting our business now because we were relying on Amazon, and now it is not even safe to send in inventory in case it is lost when it arrives, plus the original issue of customer returns being stuck in unauthorised warehouses.
For now please can you make sure we are quickly and be fully recompensed for this. In addition to your points about "compensation for fees incurred, including consideration of losses from the new issue", and "the possibility of reviewing charges beyond the one-year window", please can we also be recompensed for the value of the products at the selling price (minus any charges Amazon would have applied when they were sold), for all products that are still stuck in unauthorised warehouses and all the products that are still missing.
We really need Amazon to make good with this, both to show good faith and so we have the cash flow that we would have had if this had not happened. Please can you action this absolutely as soon as possible. Thank you."
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi Spencer,
You've not posted for a while, you're still helping with this, yes?
The issues are still ongoing, nothing resolved at all yet. I'm now also being told we won't be recompensed for this after all. This is my response.
"It's good to hear that things are proceeding to get all issues resolved, and of course I would like to believe that they will be. But as it is now still none of the products have been returned to Spain, and it is now over 6 months since Amazon started trying to do this.
As for recompense, let's be very clear about this. No recompense has been received. We received reimbursements for a 2 year period, but not for charges that were made to our account for the period before that, or for the period since then. Besides that we have received a reimbursement for one item that had been declared definitely lost, plus a one off payment of Euros 250. That Euros 250 payment is less than the amounts that we were charged before and since the 2 year period.
So not only have we received zero recompense for this issue, we have not even been fully reimbursed for the charges Amazon have taken from us during this fiasco.
We've had products that should have been sold and then restocked multiple times over since this issue began, which is possibly over 3 years ago now. The 10, 15 or 20 minutes required each time to correspond about this issue, both here and on the forum, has added up to hours, and then days, of my time over the past 6 months. The not knowing how to proceed due to the EFN not being fit for purpose, has added further losses and uncertainty. In addition to the products that have been in unauthorised warehouses for a very long time, some of them years, at least some of stock that was sent in weeks ago and is still missing would have been sold by now, and the remainder be available for customers to purchase, further draining our cash flow and profitability.
The major trust issue is with sending our products to Amazon. It is sending our products into Amazon that has caused all these ridiculous problems, which no matter how patient and understanding we are leads to us substantially losing out. And the situation just goes on and on.
You yourself on the 4th of this month said you were looking into compensation for fees incurred, including consideration of losses from the new issue, and the possibility of reviewing charges beyond the one-year window about recompense. But now you say we are to receive nothing.
I fully understand that Amazon is a large corporation and we are a small seller, and can therefore treat us as it likes and there's not much we can do about it. But if this is the case then please let's at least be honest and up front about it. Or, preferably, please can you discuss this with the senior management you are now in touch with and ask them to agree proper and fair recompense for what has happened and is still happening. "
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I am indeed still looking into this. Keep communicating with my colleague, he is doing all he can to solve this for you. I continue checking in with him.
Regards, Spencer
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi Spencer,
Ok, thanks.
Still none of the products have been found/sent to Spain FCs.
I've been in touch with your colleague again and received this response.
"Thank you for your detailed response. I sincerely appreciate your candor and the comprehensive overview of the challenges you've faced.
I acknowledge your points regarding:
- The ongoing delay in returning products to Spain
- The discrepancy between reimbursements and actual losses incurred
- The significant time and effort you've invested in addressing this issue
- The impact on your business operations and cash flow
I understand your frustration, especially given my previous communication about potential compensation. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused.
While I cannot promise any specific outcomes at this time, I want you to know that your case is receiving high-level attention.
We will continue to closely monitor the progress of your inventory transfer and work diligently to resolve all outstanding issues. I'll keep you updated on any developments.
We value your continued patience and for bringing these important points to our attention."
Since receiving the above message we've been charged yet more long term storage fees for EU Non-authorised warehouses.
This is my reply to your colleague:
"Thanks for your reply. I really hope something can be done about this.
More long term storage fees have now been charged. This was something you were going to stop from happening again, what's the situation with that please?
Also, I'm concerned that I may have just made a big mistake. We have more products at the factory that were to be sent to Spain FC for EFN, which because this issue is still ongoing I didn't know what to do with. However, I decided to take the risk of sending around a quarter of them to Spain FCs anyway in the hope that this situation would be resolved soon. They have already left the factory and it's too late to stop the shipment now. But now I'm getting really worried because if these products go missing on arrival and then we keep getting charged storage fees for them this could create a really serious problem for us.
Also, there are the other three quarters of the products just sitting in the factory. I'm not sure whether to send these to the UK and try Seller Fulfilled orders to the EU from there, or what to do with them.
I realise now that we focussed too much on Amazon and that we should have looked at other sales channels more to spread the risk. However, I didn't do that and now our good reviews for these products are on Amazon, so now would be the time to expand on Amazon if the EFN system was working. But unless something can be done really quickly Amazon has really pulled the rug from under this.
You seem to be suggesting that recompense may still be forthcoming, I really hope it is. We've invested a lot into selling on Amazon and although we've possibly been a little naive in the trust we have placed in Amazon, surely it would be in Amazon's best interest if sellers were treated fairly in a situation such as this, and helped to get through it. This is 100% not our fault, and for over 6 months now I have been trying absolutely everything I can to get this resolved. I really don't know what else I could have done.
Anyway, I realise we are powerless to do anything about this, just have to wait and see what happens, it's quite depressing really when this could be such a good opportunity.
If there is anything at all you can do to help please do it."
Spencer_Amazon
Thank you again for the detailed comments, @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n.
I know it may not seem like it, but my contact is very much working on this with other teams on high levels of management.
Please hang in there with us and keep communicating on the case.
Regards, Spencer
