EFN Problem
Serious problem with EFN, can anyone help? We are a UK own brand seller. We enrolled in the EFN program in the EU some time ago, and our products are stored in FBA warehousing in Spain. Because we are only VAT registered in Spain (not any other EU country), Amazon's rule is that products can only be stored in Spain. They are then distributed to customers both within Spain and in other EU countries. This works fine. However, the problem we are having is that when a customer returns a product that they bought in Germany (for example), this product is then sent back to FBA Germany. So far, also fine, because to abide by their own rules you would think Amazon would then forward the product back to FBA Spain (these are products in sellable condition). But they don't! Not only do they keep them in Germany (and other EU countries), they charge for storage there even though these products are not for sale because they are not in Spain. Also, because they are not in Spain when you go to Manage All Inventory and FBA Inventory, only the products in Spain FBA are listed. So we don't get proper visibility on those and these products outside Spain increase each time there is a return. And we are charged storage fees each month and now long term storage fees too, which are adding up. We have found out that only by doing a full Inventory Ledger report can these products be seen. We have contacted Seller Support and asked them these questions:
1. How do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
2. How can we get the products that are already in non-Spain EU warehouse sent back to FBA Spain warehouses?
For number 1 we were initially told that the returns settings had been set up incorrectly but they were correct now, and that this would not happen again. However, it keeps happening.
For number 2 we were told that this is not possible, that they can only be sent to a third party address within the EU. We don't have such an address as we are UK based and rely on Amazon for warehousing.
We then contacted Seller Support again, and asked these questions:
A. Again, how do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
B. As we did not request these products to be returned to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses (and this seems to be against Amazon's own policies), please can we be refunded the monies paid for non-Spain EU FBA storage fees?
C. As we don't have any address within the EU, if they cannot be sent back to Spain FBA our only option is to have these products destroyed (even though they are in sellable condition).
For A and B we received no response about this. For C we were sent information about how to send the products to a 3rd party address within the EU (which we don't have), and the question about destroying the products was ignored.
At this point we gave up with Seller Support and I contacted a third party Amazon service provider and asked them for a quote to get these products destroyed. They have now been looking into this for a week and they cannot yet find out how to do this.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Or if someone from Amazon would respond and help, even better. In all fairness we should really have the storage costs refunded, and be provided with a way to stop this happening again, otherwise it is a drain on our business and undermines the viability of the EFN program.
@Sakura_Amazon_
@Sarah_Amzn
@Winston_Amazon
@Simon_Amazon
@Julia_Amzn
@Ezra_Amazon
EFN Problem
Serious problem with EFN, can anyone help? We are a UK own brand seller. We enrolled in the EFN program in the EU some time ago, and our products are stored in FBA warehousing in Spain. Because we are only VAT registered in Spain (not any other EU country), Amazon's rule is that products can only be stored in Spain. They are then distributed to customers both within Spain and in other EU countries. This works fine. However, the problem we are having is that when a customer returns a product that they bought in Germany (for example), this product is then sent back to FBA Germany. So far, also fine, because to abide by their own rules you would think Amazon would then forward the product back to FBA Spain (these are products in sellable condition). But they don't! Not only do they keep them in Germany (and other EU countries), they charge for storage there even though these products are not for sale because they are not in Spain. Also, because they are not in Spain when you go to Manage All Inventory and FBA Inventory, only the products in Spain FBA are listed. So we don't get proper visibility on those and these products outside Spain increase each time there is a return. And we are charged storage fees each month and now long term storage fees too, which are adding up. We have found out that only by doing a full Inventory Ledger report can these products be seen. We have contacted Seller Support and asked them these questions:
1. How do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
2. How can we get the products that are already in non-Spain EU warehouse sent back to FBA Spain warehouses?
For number 1 we were initially told that the returns settings had been set up incorrectly but they were correct now, and that this would not happen again. However, it keeps happening.
For number 2 we were told that this is not possible, that they can only be sent to a third party address within the EU. We don't have such an address as we are UK based and rely on Amazon for warehousing.
We then contacted Seller Support again, and asked these questions:
A. Again, how do we stop returns being sent to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses?
B. As we did not request these products to be returned to non-Spain EU FBA warehouses (and this seems to be against Amazon's own policies), please can we be refunded the monies paid for non-Spain EU FBA storage fees?
C. As we don't have any address within the EU, if they cannot be sent back to Spain FBA our only option is to have these products destroyed (even though they are in sellable condition).
For A and B we received no response about this. For C we were sent information about how to send the products to a 3rd party address within the EU (which we don't have), and the question about destroying the products was ignored.
At this point we gave up with Seller Support and I contacted a third party Amazon service provider and asked them for a quote to get these products destroyed. They have now been looking into this for a week and they cannot yet find out how to do this.
Has anyone experienced a similar situation? Or if someone from Amazon would respond and help, even better. In all fairness we should really have the storage costs refunded, and be provided with a way to stop this happening again, otherwise it is a drain on our business and undermines the viability of the EFN program.
@Sakura_Amazon_
@Sarah_Amzn
@Winston_Amazon
@Simon_Amazon
@Julia_Amzn
@Ezra_Amazon
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
What a situation, I am going to set up a meeting with my contact to find out exactly what is going on and how we can solve it.
I will let you know.
Regards, Spencer
133 replies
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I am Spencer with Amazon.
Have you had a chance to contact seller support on this issue?
Let me know if you need additional help.
Regards, Spencer
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Ok, good. Thanks Spencer, it's sounding very promising now.
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi Spencer,
Well, it looks like our hopes are dashed yet again. Another 2 weeks have gone by and nothing has happened. You may know the person I am now in contact with for this case, and he may well be excellent, but it's not him that is actually working on it.
He says it is an "internal team" that are doing that. For all I know this could be the same internal team that have tried to fix this multiple times over the past now nearly 5 months but have been unable to do so.
The situation is now actually getting worse, not better. While the EFN system is not working properly we need at least to be properly recompensed for this. This is something that can be done as it has been already done in part, just needs to be brought up to date.
I have added this below to the case. Please continue to do what you can from your side.
Message added to case:
"Yet another 2 weeks has gone past, and now it's nearly 5 months that an internal team have been trying to fix this. Obviously I want to still hold out some hope that they can, but as it stands the EFN system is not fit for purpose.
I have just checked and still nothing has been removed from the non-Spain unauthorised warehouses. And actually another sellable product is now stranded in Germany in addition to those there already. So the monthly storage and long term storage charges that are automatically deducted from our account will be increasing.
Unfortunately I assumed this would be fixed by now and sent more stock the Amazon FCs in Spain. So this situation is now likely to get worse rather than better, with more stock ending up in unauthorised warehouses and neither us or anyone at Amazon able to do anything about it.
As I was not to know that this would not be fixed before sending in more stock, please can you absolutely prioritise all reimbursements to us up to this point. This is something that can be done as it has been done before, and at least will restore, for me and other sellers, some trust in using the Amazon system. I would hope that this can be done very soon. And if there is any other update about the EFN system being fixed please do let me know that too."
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi again Spencer,
Well it looked like things were going well. We received a refund for some of the outstanding fees that we were charged for the storage and long term storage fees. We're still out of pocket with this but it was better than nothing and I was hopeful that it meant things were moving forward.
But now I have received another message from Seller Support saying almost exactly the same thing that has been said every other time (it looks like a copy and paste message), ie, that the products are now being sent to Spain FC and will arrive soon. As you know we've been told this multiple times and none of them have ever arrived there.
They have closed the case again too.
It is so incredibly frustrating to still be in this situation after all this time and effort.
So anyway all I can do is reopen the case. I have now done that and sent the message below. Please do whatever you can from your side. Thanks.
""Sorry but this is exactly what we were told nearly 5 months ago when this issue was first raised. That the products were now being sent back to Spain FCs.
This is the response from Seller Support from that time:
"Dear Silk Bedding Direct Team. This is Roger and it has been a pleasure assisting you today. We are truly grateful for the opportunity given to work hand to hand to solve the issue. So base on your email I understand you are contacting regarding EFN and storaged issue due to returns were you were not authorizing storage. Be informed that all details has been reviewed carefully and diligently and as a result of our exhaustive investigation we have found that our internal team has request the inventory to be moved to ES FCs. Changes will be visible in 14 days."
The products never arrived in Spain FCs and we were charged more storage and long-term storage fees on multiple occasions (some now refunded).
Since then things have just dragged on and on, and we have been told exactly the same thing another twice more (each time after a long investigation with lots of back and forth taking up a lot of everyone's time). None of this has worked. Each time we were told that the units would arrive in Spain FCs they never have.
So the message from you telling me again that the units are being moved to Spain FCs is the 4th time I've been told this over the now nearly 5 months that we have trying to get this resolved.
So, please, please, please, please, keep this case open until you can actually see that all the units have indeed arrived in Spain FCs. And if they don't arrive then keep the case open so you can continue to investigate until this issue it properly resolved.
As you may be aware this case is being discussed on the forums. The moderator there, Spencer, says he knows you and that you are excellent. Please, please, please prove him right, please see this through until the end, until you can definitely see it has been fully resolved.
I agree with you that there may not be a lot of units in the non authorised warehouses, but they are continuing to accumulate and they are high value. At our average order values this would be a round €5,000, which although nothing for Amazon is a lot for us to have indefinitely tied up and be charged for storage. Also, while this is still ongoing, it means we cannot proceed to expand into Europe under the EFN system as we had initially planned to do.
Also, this is important not just for us, but for any seller that wants to use the EFN system, and for Amazon to have an EFN system that works properly and can be used without these ongoing issues.""
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I am sorry this is still going on. I will do what I can from my side.
Regards, Spencer
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I just connected with my partner in the internal team and he has prioritized your case.
We will keep in touch.
Regards, Spencer
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi Spencer,
Ok, that sounds good. When you say "internal team" do you mean you are now in direct contact with the people who are dealing with this issue (ie, not the person in seller support that I am in contact with)? If so that would definitely be a positive development.
Unfortunately we have now been charged yet more storage and long term storage fees for the unauthorised warehouses. I have sent the email below to the person in seller support asking to be reimbursed for these and for all previous charges to be covered too. I hope this can quickly be brought well and truly up to date while the ongoing issues that caused this are continuing to be looked into.
Also, as you know, many of the products in the unauthorised warehouses are in sellable condition, some have been there a very long time, and so there is the loss of sales that could have been achieved had the EFN system been fully functional during this period. I'm not sure if anything can be done about that, but if it can please do move that forward.
Copy of my message to Seller Support:
"Thanks for your reply.
We have today been charged yet more long term storage fees for Italy, Germany and France.
While the EFN system is still not working properly we need at least to be properly recompensed for these, and also all the previous storage and long term storage fees. This is something that can be done as it has been already done in part on two occasions, most recently a smaller amount was reimbursed by you a few weeks ago.
Taking into consideration the amounts we have been reimbursed on those two occasions, we are still out of pocket for these charges. There were no doubt a lot of charges incurred previous to the 2 years window that we can view (which we have been reimbursed for). We started selling into the EU with EFN in 2018 so the charges could go back a long time previous to the 2 years. Please can you assess a fair figure for the reimbursement so that this is properly brought up to date. As this has been going on for so long, and we have put in so much effort to try to get it resolved, I trust you agree that the calculation for further reimbursement should err in our favour.
Separately, are you able you to see if any of the units have left the non authorised FCs to be sent to Spain FCs yet? And do you have a list of what these units are? The number of units you mentioned in your previous message does not tally with the number we see in our Inventory Ledger (your numbers are higher).
If there is anything else, or any other developments please let me know. Let's keep on this case and make sure it really does get resolved this time. All we want to do is make sure we are not losing financially from this (hence the urgent request to be more fully reimbursed) and to be able to use the EFN system as it was designed to be and in that way make sales into the EU with Amazon. Thank you."
Seller_G3XWWgTsPLBc0
Same problem here. Getting storage fees for stock that can't be found and is more than a year old. Tried uploading Excel bulk removal requests and they don't work
Spencer_Amazon
Hello @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
The person you are dealing with is from an internal team and he is dealing with another internal team. I am in direct contact with him.
I have asked him for the latest update on your case. I will keep you posted.
Regards, Spencer
Spencer_Amazon
Hello again @Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n,
I followed up with my contact and he is still working hard with different teams to get this resolved.
In the mean time the issue remains unders research and consideration.
We stay in touch.
Regards, Spencer
Seller_DJqWlEby6fi8n
Hi Spencer,
Well, hopefully that is good news.
But actually the situation has now got much worse. Besides the customer returns being sent to the EU unauthorised warehouses, new products that I sent to the FCs in Spain have been forwarded on to EU unauthorised warehouses too. And because of this have not been made available for customers to buy. This is new stock, stock that has never been sent to a customer. At the selling prices there's over €3,000 of our incoming stock that disappeared after being sorted into the Spain FCs and has now been found in German, Polish and Italian FCs. This is the stock that I sent in because I didn't have time to cancel it as I thought all the issues with the EFN system would be resolved by then.
It will soon be coming up to 6 months since both you and I have been working on this. I am told by your contact in the internal team that the new stock is now in the process of being returned back to Spain, as is some of the stock that we keep being charged the storage and long term storage fees for. However, there is no visibility on this, and while I would very much like to believe this is going to happen until it does we are still in the same situation as before plus this additional problem of new stock being sent to unauthorised warehouses too.
We have both spent a lot of time on this over these months, and you have diligently pursued this, but even so we are, as it stands now, in a worse situation than when we first began. Very, very frustrating to say the least.
I am now in a situation whereby I can send most future products to UK 3rd party warehousing and send FBM to the EU customers from there, and it this way avoid the EFN system altogether. However, there is a range of lower priced products that it would not be cost effective to do that. Some of these are already made at the factory now and waiting to be shipped, and I need to decide whether to risk sending them to Spain FCs for EFN within the next 7 - 10 days.
With the problems we have with the returns going to unauthorised warehouses the risk was already high. But now with the current situation it's possible all the incoming stock could be forwarded on to unauthorised warehouses too.
It's difficult to know what to do under these circumstances and I wonder if you have any advice please? If you think I should still send them would you also commit to keeping this thread open (even if the original problem with customer returns is resolved) until we are sure that everything is working properly and no products are being sent anywhere they shouldn't be? Please let me know.
I am hoping that we will receive the further reimbursement before I have to decide this too, and that it will be an amount that gives me confidence that even if things do continue to go wrong at least we will be properly recompensed. I will let you know here when I hear something about that.
Meanwhile, this is the reply I have sent to your contact in the internal team:
"Thanks for this. However nearly all other the products on your list are not products that have been returned by customers, which is what this case has been about ever since it was first opened. Most of the products on your list were recently sent into Spain FCs by me, but then after being successfully sorted there they disappeared and were never made visible for customers to buy or made visible for us to see what had happened to them. So this is a new and additional problem, and another route by which products are ending up in unauthorised EU warehouses, this time without first ever being sent to a customer. This also means that none of these products were available for customers to buy during the still ongoing Black Friday busy period, and so this is another major loss for us.
Please can you keep me updated when the remaining products that were subject to the storage and long term storage fees are sent to Spain FCs, and also let me know if there is anywhere I can get visibility on this and the ones that you have already initiated the transfer for.
In your previous message you mentioned about making sure further storage and long term storage fees cannot be charged to our account for non authorised warehouses. Please can you confirm that this has now been done and that there will be no more such charges.
Also, in your previous message you said:
'Compensation for storage and long-term storage fees: We take your concerns seriously and acknowledge the inconvenience this has caused. While we're committed to fair compensation, please note that our policy limits us to reviewing and potentially reimbursing fees incurred within the past year. We'll conduct a research on this issue and provide you with a fair compensation accordingly.
For charges beyond the one-year window, I apologize, but we cannot process reimbursements for these due to our internal policies. However, I assure you that we're focusing on resolving the root cause to prevent future occurrences.'
Please do proceed with the reimbursement, and I trust that the losses incurred by the new issue of the new products being sent to unauthorised warehouses will be fully taken into consideration when assessing the reimbursement amount. Also, some charges beyond the one year window have already been refunded, so this is definitely possible. I may be able to get the information from our accountants about all incorrect storage and long term storage fees that have been charged for the entire period that this has been happening. If this would be of any help please let me know, otherwise I trust you will take everything into consideration that has been happening here and err in our favour when assessing the reimbursement amount. We want to sell on Amazon, and that is all we are trying to do, so please support us properly in the case of serious issues like this so that we and other seller can have the confidence to do this.
I realise that this is probably just as difficult an issue for you to resolve as it is for us, and thank you for doing your best to continue to resolve this. However, please be fully aware that in addition to the sheer frustration of this, we are the ones losing financially from this situation. So please do make sure we are reimbursed for absolutely the fullest amount that you calculate we could have lost through this. Thank you."
